History Can’t Wait Until High School | History Matters Podcast

In the typical American high school, 9th-grade history students are expected to dive into the historical content, grapple with complex ideas, and engage in deep inquiry. But teenage students often lack the historical knowledge such tasks require. If you haven’t learned much about the Civil War, for example, you won’t be ready to discuss whether the Compromise of 1877 was a fair deal.

That’s one of the challenges described by this episode’s guest, Ebony McKiver, a curriculum expert and former high-school history teacher and state social studies lead. In her high-school history classroom, she recalls, “we were trying to keep pace with the scope and sequence and teach content that was actually going to be new for students, [but] we were actually spending a lot of time revisiting old, previous content that students should have had.” 

The missing link? “Better history curriculum for our elementary students.” 

Young students love history, which has a “natural lens of storytelling,” she notes. Strong history instruction is coherent and chronological instead of “one-off facts about important people and events.” It deserves more time during the school day and can be paired with English Language Arts (ELA).

“Historical thinking skills and literacy skills are two sides of the same coin,” she says. “If we truly want stronger readers, we need ELA and social studies to work together at every level.”

McKiver offers examples of states developing curricula: Louisiana, Massachusetts, Georgia, and Utah. She describes visiting a Louisiana classroom where an ELA lesson “had students that were building timelines and analyzing decisions made by leaders like George Washington.”

“It is proof that when you prioritize social studies and you work intentionally with other content areas, especially ELA, all students no matter their age, are capable of engaging deeply, mastering historical content, and also applying historical thinking skills.”

This podcast is produced by the Knowledge Matters Campaign and StandardsWork, on behalf of the History Matters Campaign. Follow the History Matters Campaign on Instagram, Facebook and Twitter/X. Search #historymatters to join the conversation.

Production by Tressa Versteeg. Original music and sound engineering by Aidan Shea.

Transcript

Ebony McKiver

We had students that were building timelines and analyzing decisions made by leaders like George Washington during the American Revolution. We witnessed a kindergarten class where students were comparing the bald eagle to the brown pelican as symbols for freedom and strength. I mean, talk about big ideas that were coming out of the mouths and brains of little people.

Barbara Davidson 

Welcome to the brand new History Matters podcast. I'm your host, Barbara Davidson, President of Standards Work and Executive Director of the Knowledge Matters Campaign. 

Today I'm sharing my conversation with Ebony McKiver, a former high school social studies teacher in Baltimore, Maryland, who was also social studies coordinator for the state of Nebraska. Ebony's been involved in serious curriculum efforts through her work on the Gates Foundation's Big History Project. 

The range of her experience gives Ebony a unique perspective on the state of social studies education across the country and the improvements that she thinks students and parents are seeking. Please enjoy this discussion.

Barbara Davidson 

I want to start off, Ebony, by asking you to take a crack at connecting that background with this campaign that we're on. This campaign to make some good trouble about the need for more and better elementary history instruction. Welcome. And can you do that for me my friend?

Ebony McKiver 

[laughs] Absolutely. So first I want to say professionally: I eat, breathe, sleep, live all things social studies and history related. So I've spent my career seeing what happens when one history is sort of treated as an afterthought, but also all the things that are possible when history is treated as a priority. 

I have to say, I really enjoy this work because I know that high quality social studies and instruction and materials provided at the elementary level can change the trajectory for students. There are many reasons why it's not right now, but that isn't my goal. My goal is to make sure that excellent social studies instruction in curriculum is provided to every student at every grade level. And that should be the rule and not the exception.

Barbara Davidson 

Wow, great. Yeah. So you're a former high school teacher of social studies. And so how did that fuel your passion for helping kids at the elementary level in particular get better history instruction?

Ebony McKiver 

So when I was a high school teacher, I loved teaching ninth grade. That was my favorite. But I also quickly realized that many of my ninth graders were walking into my classroom without the foundational knowledge that they truly needed to engage with the course topics. 

In high school, US history begins at reconstruction, but some of my students didn't know who fought in the Civil War, why it was fought, or even the consequences of the war that were still ー that are still visible and relevant today. How could I even ask my students to grapple with issues like the Compromise of 1877, or the economic aftermath in the South, the industrial boom in the North, or really the successes and the failures of the Freedmen's Bureau without that context that they needed?

By the time my students reached high school, it was really much harder to teach the content because that was the point that they were expected to engage in inquiry-based learning. And there's difficulty working with students around inquiry and using those historical disciplinary skills if they don't have that strong foundation of content knowledge. 

It was almost as if they were seeing the content brand new for the very first time. And some of this content was supposed to be a review of materials that they had learned in earlier grades. So as we're trying to, you know, keep pace with the scope and sequence and teach content that was actually gonna be new for students, we were actually spending a lot of time revisiting old previous content that students should have had. 

So for me, the answer lies in promoting stronger and better history curriculum for our elementary students. Also, selfishly, I think if done right, we can develop students who possess a deep love for history and social studies that will carry forward throughout their time in school and even into adulthood.

Barbara Davidson
So as you say that, Ebony, I can only imagine how frustrating that was for not just the teachers but for students as well. How were they reacting to the content that was being presented to them then? 

Ebony McKiver

I will say that students really love history. And they enjoy it for a couple of reasons, and I have two theories about it. My first theory is that students enjoy the content because social studies and history just has a natural lens of storytelling that goes with it. 

You know, for folks of a certain age, we grew up hearing the story of Christopher Columbus and sailing across the ocean blue in 1492. But, you know, when he assembled his crew, they were scared that they were going to fall off the side of the earth because, you know, at that time, folks didn't know that the earth was around. We know that this story has since been debunked. But when you think about it, it had intrigue, it had drama, it had, you know, a hero’s welcome for Christopher Columbus back to Spain. And so it was a very triumphant and valiant ending to it. 

But also, too, social studies and history really connects to the side of students that allows them to relate the content to their own lives so they can see themselves in the story. But it also allows students to think about how they're connected to their communities and think of issues that may be happening in their communities, but also dream about ways to be able to inspire and think of solutions to sort of resolve those issues that they see as well. 

Barbara Davidson

I want to just push on this just a little bit more because you're sort of describing two realities. One is this real absence of preparation and connection to what this story is all about. And yet this real interest and, and motivation to learn more on the part of students.

I ー I have to believe that it was, that it was pretty hard to appreciate the story for kids that didn't have any connection. For example, where the heck is Spain? And uh what does it mean, 1492? You know, what else was going on in the world at that time?

Ebony McKiver

You're exactly right. And I think ー so, there is some hesitancy on the part of students. And I think it traces back to traditionally how history education has been taught in schools, where even now today history is still sort of seen as a couple of things: One, that rote memorization. So you go to history class and when you learn about a person or historical event, it comes down to the five W's and then that's: so what What's the importance of that event? 

I think the other issue too, where there is some hesitancy for students is because sometimes you get teachers ー and you know, social studies teachers are famous for this. I can admit that I did this as well. But when there's a topic area or a subject that you personally really love, what happens then is you become the sage on the stage and it turns into a lecture for your students. And so when that happens, you start to see, you know, the eyes roll back in the students' heads and they begin to doodle and drift off and then they're not engaged with the materials as well.

Barbara Davidson  

If that's a challenge for secondary teachers, those who are experts in a particular content area, how much more so is this a dilemma for elementary teachers who really have not been, you know, been trained as history teachers? 

Ebony McKiver 

You know, when elementary teachers are asked to teach history, they do it in a way where, you know, there are these one-off facts about important people and events in history. And I think that, in part, it is that history content is being taught in silos. And I like to call it the history highlight reel.  

And so students get you know, those big pieces of information, you know, they learn that Abraham Lincoln is the 16th president. And then when students get to high school and you say: Hey, what can you tell me about Abraham Lincoln? They're easily able to recall the fact that, you know, he was the 16th president, but there is a lot of context and other information that is missing. 

I think the second issue that I've encountered is, yes, there is not enough time mandated for students to get social studies in history in elementary school. Oftentimes when we see the things are not mandated or required, we know that those topics and subject areas are often the first ones to get cut.

And so the other problem that we're seeing with teachers who are excited to teach social studies in the elementary school is that there is really no professional learning that's dedicated or targeted towards teachers to help them with understanding how to teach history. And so you can give the best teacher, you know, social studies content, but without sort of a guidebook on what they should be doing and how social studies looks in elementary classrooms, that curriculum is going to fall flat as well.

Barbara Davidson 

So sitting in your perch as a former state social studies coordinator, and if you could wave your magic wand and make things better, what would it be?

Ebony McKiver 

If I had a magic wand and I could wave it, the first thing would be to actually have some requirements around seat hours or time for social studies in elementary school. While I was in my state role, you know, there were things that I could do to suggest to administrators for them to be able to fit social studies and history into the school day. And I could even suggest high quality instructional curriculum for them to use. But again, these were only suggestions. 

And if we want to prioritize what I think is what we're all prioritizing right now, which is literacy and reading, and also if we just want to make sure that we're creating better citizens, engaged citizens then I think we have to prioritize history in the elementary level. And that means requiring that it is taught more than the 30 minutes that we're seeing on average across the board that students get in social studies a week in history.

Barbara Davidson 

So Nebraska, where you were state coordinator, is a member of this instructional materials and professional development network which is 13 states that are sort of being facilitated by the council of chief state school officers and supported in really bringing high quality instructional materials into the state, both in ELA and mathematics. 

They have not taken on social studies curriculum. I know Nebraska has been kind of a leader in this network in terms of the embrace by districts and the, the state messaging about the importance of high quality literacy curricula. Is that enough maybe? I mean, many of these curricula are knowledge building. What would you say about the connection between the social studies and the ELA work?

Ebony McKiver 

We know that historical thinking skills and literacy skills are two sides of the same coin.   In looking for that connection and collaboration between social studies and ELA, if we look to Scarborough's reading rope, that actually makes it very clear. So the word recognition strand that we see in Scarborough's reading rope lives in ELA. But the entire language comprehension strand, which includes vocabulary, language structures, verbal reasoning, literacy knowledge, and, our favorite, background knowledge, they all live squarely in social studies. 

And so if we truly want stronger readers, we need ELA and social studies to work together at every level. And this includes the classrooms, through schools, departments of education, and the IMPD. And so I encourage and I would love to encourage all of my, you know, state social studies specialists to, you know, begin and look deeply into what that collaboration with their ELA partners could look like. 

Barbara Davidson

Are there states that you're aware of, Ebony, that are leading in this area?

Ebony McKiver 

I think there are. And so the first state that I want to call out and give a shout out to is Louisiana. Because we've seen what happens at the state department level, when social studies and ELA collaborate and work together. That intentional collaboration has seen, in the last five years, the reading rates of students jump significantly.

Ebony McKiver

I will also give a shout out to Massachusetts. Massachusetts is in the process of doing the same, um and they're creating their own curriculum. The middle school release has received high praises across the board. And I know that they're currently piloting  upper elementary school. And so I'm really excited to see what comes of that and how that's received.

Georgia, if you, you know, go on YouTube, they have a lot of instructional videos that are aimed at elementary educators that combine the social studies content as well as those literacy goals that a lot of us have. And then I know Utah has invested in providing out of the classroom opportunities for their elementary educators to really receive that hands-on social studies training.

I will also say for Georgia and Utah though, a factor that really sets both of these states apart is that they have a state social studies specialist specifically for elementary, which means that there is a dedicated professional that can speak to the specific concerns that elementary educators face when it comes to social studies and history.

Barbara Davidson 

So you joined me on a school tour visit to Ouachita Parish in Louisiana that's using this Bayou Bridges curriculum. We've talked with a couple of the teachers that we met there. What were your impressions of this visit, Ebony?

Ebony McKiver 

[sighs] It was an incredible experience. From ー both days that we were there, my mind was just blown. We sat in an ELA lesson that could have easily been mistaken for a social studies lesson. 

We had students that were building timelines and analyzing decisions made by leaders like George Washington during the American Revolution. We witnessed a kindergarten class where students were comparing the bald eagle to the brown pelican as symbols for freedom and strength. I mean, talk about big ideas that were coming out of the mouths and brains of little people.

When we visited the social studies classrooms, third graders were diving into the civil rights movement and connecting figures like Jackie Robinson and Ruby Bridges to their own lived experiences. Fifth graders were exploring the scientific revolution and debating how the heliocentric theory and advancements in medicine reshape both religion and society. I mean, come on. 

But it is proof that when you prioritize social studies and you work intentionally with other content areas, especially ELA, all students, no matter their age, are capable of engaging deeply, mastering historical content, and also applying historical thinking skills.

Barbara Davidson 

Love it. So I think it's time we have to wrap up, sadly. 

Ebony McKiver 

Aw man! [laughs]

Barbara Davidson 

But I [laughs] ー I want to ask you the last question, which I'm trying to ask everyone on this podcast. What's giving you hope for the future of social studies instruction and particularly at the elementary level?

Ebony McKiver

What's giving me hope is that more and more school districts are reaching out and trying to figure out how can they implement and adopt high quality instructional materials at that level. I talk to teachers often who ー again, and I said it before ー are very excited about the idea and the prospect of being able to bring social studies in their classroom. Teachers have said, even if we get 30 minutes a week or 60 minutes a week in two blocks, that's the time that my students are the most engaged. And so that gives me hope. 

Teachers continue to give me hope because I see the work that they're doing. I see the effort that they're putting in. And I know that even if it's not a required subject that they are still trying to make sure that their students are getting glimpses and purviews and, you know, access to social studies. So I applaud teachers everywhere for continuing to uplift social studies in elementary. 

Barbara Davidson

This podcast is produced by the Knowledge Matters Campaign. You can learn more about our work at knowledgematterscampaign.org. 

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